The Egregious Classic Resto Shaman Progressive BiS


  • Initiate

    @Chain1 Not egregious - but in my opinion it can still be really beneficial having a deep resto sham on tank heals. The 25% armor boost from ancestral healing isn't something to be ignored and we have essentially a LoH with NS+ R10 HW. On a good majority of fights, healing waves on MT will also reach some mdps (with 8/8 t1). Shamans are great raid healers, but also very strong single target healers. It generally boils down to your raid comp and what you need the most. If you have an issue with tanks getting flatlined, maybe the extra armor and utility from a rsham would be helpful. However if you have dps dying too often, toss that shaman out there to cast some chain heals.


  • Initiate

    @Budlightning does the shaman 25% armor buff stack with the priests one?


  • Initiate

    @Chain1 It does not, but they will overwrite each other, and essentially renew duration.



  • Thanks all of you for your comments


  • Initiate

    Since you say get either the +healing totem or the + rebirth cd totem in one phase but then have rebirth as BIS for the rest of the phases is it safe to assume to just go for rebirth over the +healing or should you have both in your arsenal?


  • Initiate

    @Chain1 If you are on tank duty, then full T1 is good. But that is only the case if there are other tanks or perhaps dps close enough (10 yards I think), and they also have to be taking damage (trash, maybe Rag and bwl-dragons etc). Otherwise maxed +healing (and +mp5) is better in pure tank and spank fights (razorgore, vael etc).

    If you on the other hand are on both tank duty and raid healing, perhaps at the same time, then the choice between T1, 3 set T2 and +healing becomes more interesting as it could depend on the fight, what off-pieces you have and also your raid composition and tactic.

    If you are on purely tank duty, and that tank is all alone at a certain spot, the reason full T1 isn't great is because the 5set would only give you about 7-15 mp5, depending on what healing rank used and that mp5 calculation is only true if you never cancel a heal; and 8set bonus wouldnt do anything at all.

    Therefor I would say it is good if you pass T1 to the tank healer for those specific fights mentioned, but it is also good to have all shammys have T1 for certain raid healing and the fights I mentioned above with f.e. multiple tanks close to each other.

    On a sidenote, but perhaps given, full T1 obviously scales worse, since you cannot upgrade your items. So the more offpieces you pick up with big +healing, the less viable full T1 perhaps becomes.

    I could however be misinformed.


  • Initiate

    T1 5 set gives effectively the following.
    110Mp5 when using LHW R6, 95Mp5 when using Healing Wave R9
    80mp5 if not specced into faster Healing Wave Casts
    diminishing effects on lower ranks

    From my calculations when you have around 913+ healing you can output more than t1 8 set though less efficiently based on 450+ healing with 8 set. On paper you will overheal more regardless so its more like 848+ healing that beats T1 8 set, plus with its limited range its only a few bosses where you can use it to its full potential.

    The significance of 3 set T2 and crit numbers speak for themselves
    based on 988+healing full BiS phase 3
    Initial Second Third
    T2 1312 1050 840
    no T2 1312 656 328

    Taking crit into account (take note critting on all 3 is an extremely low chance)
    Initial Second Third
    T2 1968 1575 1260
    no T2 1968 984 492

    Ceilings of stats where they lose all value
    +healing - never loses value get as much as possible.
    Crit ~40% with full world buffs after that it loses value probably the most underrated stat imo.
    100 MP5 for intense healing CH R3 over a long duration (20 mins+) with consumables you will never need more, If fights are under 3 minutes you don't need any MP5 just high Int
    Intellect - never loses value get as much as possible.

    Using the following point system based on Egregious ratios put into the pawn addon I have 2 gear sets

    Min/Max (progression fights where mana is intensively used by default the most optimized set for healing output) 1:1 with Egregious ratios.
    1 Healing=16.6 points
    1 int=20 points
    1 mp5=100 points
    1% spell crit= 200 points

    Vaelestraza and all short fights where mana regen means nothing, I like getting to 40% crit from all world buffs and then focus on +healing for maximum output, crit isn't as highly valued in these stat weights, once reaching 40% fully buffed +healing wins.
    1 int=1 points
    1% spell crit= 60 points (to 40% cap)
    +heals when cap reached, always include the 5% base you get from talents as it doesn't show in your character panel.


  • Initiate

    @Healashammy You are right, and I noticed that I wrote down the wrong numbers in my text. It is 7-15 mana per second not MP5, and my number was also too low (532 (per 2.5 sec) / 4 / 3 * 2) is around 90 MP5 on 1 target, as you wrote. Can chain to 90*3 = 270 Mp5 during optimal conditions. This is using max rank so mana might go fast.

    Problem with Full T1 is also if your main heal gets sniped it loses a lot of it's HPS, while chain heal, especially with 3 set T2, is a more spread out healing output and therefor less sensitive to the first hit getting too much overheal.

    I would also agree that the +heal breaking point of T1 and 3 set T2 would be around 700-800 +healing during normal conditions, while 3 set T2 obviously have worse regen (only matters if you want to save consumables).


  • Initiate

    @Healashammy Forgot to write that according to my math the breaking point is more around 600 +healing, or lower, assuming 3 set T2 is being used. Also if you don't take the talent "Healing way" into account as it is somewhat random regarding which targets you heal, but with perhaps 6% as an average that would bring up the breaking point somewhat.

    HW9 Full T1 MC BIS, 416 healing power -> base 1000 hps, 5.6 mana per healing + Healing way benefits (also crits "harder")
    CH3 3 set T2 MC BIS around 600-650 healing power --> 1100-1160 hps, 7.2-7.5 mana per healing.

    Could be wrong and some numbers are average.


  • Initiate

    @Egregious What are your thoughts on darkmoon faire card blue dragon on shaman? ive been really unlucky with shard and mindtap and have a good amount of spirit 230 unbuffed running 5pc t1 and 3pc t2 for hybrid tank/raid healing.


  • Initiate

    Full T1 becomes obsolete as soon as AQ40 gear becomes available right? So every shaman is going for 3/8 t2 then, unless youre on tank healing duty, in which case you would go for the items stated above if youre not primarily using CH. I thought t1 was viable until Naxx at first.


  • Founder Shaman

    @Borsko-Elemental I do not enjoy it as a trinket. I prefer reliability over a random proc. Additionally, it's not even what I would consider useful in a random proc. No Shaman should have to rely on the trinket for mana conservation. It is completely within reason to float yourself with mana consumables, MP5 inherent on gear, and a strong understanding of active time and cast canceling. If it were a +healing proc, it would be a different discussion.

    @Chain1 Full T1 8pc is viable throughout all of Classic. T1 8pc Shaman fill a niche tank/melee healing role in a way that CH spamming Shaman do no. A T2 3pc w/ +healing off pieces is a malee and raid healer. A T2.5 5pc w/ T2 3pc is a bit of an intermediary between damage and stronger subsequent heals. A really high end roster can run their entire Shaman roster as T2.5 5pc w/ T2 3pc and get full use out of it. IMO the majority of average rosters should see no more than 1 or 2 T2.5 5pc w/ T2 3pc Shaman. T2.5 should go to your best Shaman who understands their class, mana consumption and encounter mechanics as T2.5, if used improperly, can be a detriment to the Shaman.


  • Initiate

    @Egregious Can you go into some depth about how to maximize the value of T2.5 - I'm not sure without looking into a throughput calculator how exactly it stacks up with a full +healing set (it looks like you give up ~200 healing and some crit by using the 5 pieces of 2.5 compared to individual pieces). Mostly looking to get a sense of where the throughput falls compared to other sets and how you'd go about maximizing the value - is the main issue just mana consumption so effective downranking and consumable use?


  • Initiate

    Awesome work thank you very much


  • Initiate

    @Egregious could you elaborate further on the tiers of T2 pieces? currently have T2 legs, was about to apply ZG class enchant on it but decided against it while looking up guides (and stumbled upon this). i don't have T2 bracers or belt because i have Loomguard Armbraces and Corehound Belt, but if T2 legs are that bad i'd try to get the bracers so i can replace pants with Empowered Leggings.


  • Initiate

    @TreKaufPL check out this coefficient calculator I made a while back to prove that rank 3 healing wave wasn't the best ever after a point.
    feel free to make a copy and input your own +healing 😄 great to know how much stuff will hit for, I've also backported spelltips https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1umrIqhovOdhzWQfKD7w_m9aJdvCvx3srzhpF1rlxw1A/edit?usp=sharing


  • Initiate

    @Silver-Hawke imo best thing to do is collect all of t2, not to wear all at once, just to maintain 3 set whilst upgrading nonset items, eventually you'll want bracers gloves belt so they're your most valuable. currently its pants/bracers/gloves, so its still worth putting zg enchant on your t2 pants until you get bis helm from a world dragon.


  • Founder Shaman

    @protean2213 said in The Egregious Classic Resto Shaman Progressive BiS:

    @Egregious Can you go into some depth about how to maximize the value of T2.5 - I'm not sure without looking into a throughput calculator how exactly it stacks up with a full +healing set (it looks like you give up ~200 healing and some crit by using the 5 pieces of 2.5 compared to individual pieces). Mostly looking to get a sense of where the throughput falls compared to other sets and how you'd go about maximizing the value - is the main issue just mana consumption so effective downranking and consumable use?

    I did some math for this in the Shaman Discord. This is basically the breakdown:

    I also just ran AQ BiS T2 3pc w/ +healing against AQ BiS T2.5 5pc + T2 3pc to sim the difference in raw healing, assuming chain casting, is good but not phenominal over a 60 second encounter.

    In a 60 second encounter casting back to back Chain Heals:
    T2.5 5pc w/ T2 3pc: 865 +healing, 9.24% crit (not simulated), 28 casts
    https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/dFduFnynhikNH4Qfdh4Fkp
    CHr1 HPS = 996.78 | Raw = 58,604
    CHr2 HPS = 1097.2 | Raw = 64, 512
    CHr3 HPS = 1268.18 | Raw = 74,564

    T2 3pc w/ +healing offpieces: 1057 +healing, 7.02% crit (not simulated), 24 casts
    https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/8Ec7Gz7zjLwvxLC4Ba16ER
    CHr1 HPS = 950.99 | Raw = 57,048
    CHr2 HPS = 1035.34 | Raw = 62,111
    CHr3 HPS = 1178.96 | Raw = 70,728

    % Difference
    CHr1 HPS = 4.8% increase | Raw = 2.7% increase
    CHr2 HPS = 6.0% increase | Raw = 3.9% increase
    CHr3 HPS = 7.6% increase | Raw = 5.4% increase


  • Founder Shaman

    @Silver-Hawke said in The Egregious Classic Resto Shaman Progressive BiS:

    @Egregious could you elaborate further on the tiers of T2 pieces? currently have T2 legs, was about to apply ZG class enchant on it but decided against it while looking up guides (and stumbled upon this). i don't have T2 bracers or belt because i have Loomguard Armbraces and Corehound Belt, but if T2 legs are that bad i'd try to get the bracers so i can replace pants with Empowered Leggings.

    Yes. Basically you always want to equip whatever 3 pieces of T2 you have and then focus on acquiring the ideal set items. It doesn't matter what 3 pieces you have, equipping any 3 will be a massive improvement to CH regardless of what +healing items you lose. Shoulders should be avoided at all costs unless you need it for T2 3pc and legs aren't phenomenal. I rank the T2 pieces in those 3 tiers of priority as those pieces listed in tier 1 have the greatest longevity throughout Classic.

    It also absolutely depends on from what perspective we're talking. The BiS T2 pieces will be different in BWL and will change if you run T2.5 5pc, etc. So context is important.